An Observation.

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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tsuneo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:03 pm

Tolkien wrote:
Tsuneo wrote:
Ryuuchi wrote:]
Tsuneo wrote:Mandated duality!

For every "good" character you have, you must make an evil one! And vice versa!

Automatically rank-approved for your dual-twin!

If only this were true...though not everyone can play a good bad guy.


Practice makes perfect.

I think if everyone were forced to make one good guy and one bad guy, eventually the players here would have the skills necessary to pull off what Isuzu is talking about.

Currently, they do not.



I don't agree with that. There is talent here just needs refocus.

EDIT: But I do understand where you're coming from.



I didn't say talent. I said skill.

Really what people lack is detachment to their characters.

EDIT: I suppose I should elaborate.

Ryuuchi is misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that rather than making a bad guy counterpart to the good guy character, you're forced to make one of a more "evil" alignment. They don't have to be connected.

You make spunky Konoha guy who wants to be Hokage and believes in friendship.

You then have to make something else. I dunno, cold assassin who likes the taste of blood. From Yuki.

Every time one goes up, you have to rank the other too, which means you're thinking about the story. Maybe you don't like your assassin that much, but you have to make him stronger cause you made your good guy stronger.

So then you have to make an antagonist. Well, you happen to have this cold assassin who likes blood that you can use. And you don't mind killing him off, cause you don't care.

"But Tsuneo, I don't fall in love with that character, it's not as good as two direct opposition stories where you don't know where to cheer, etc etc etc."

That's the point.

If you get attached, you won't kill anyone. You won't let them lose. You love them too much.

What the people on this site need to learn is the ability to detach. This would teach that. Once you see how great a story can be when killing someone off you don't care about, you're more willing to do it with characters you /do/ care about.


That's what I mean.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:36 pm

@Tsuneo

I think I sort of know what you mean. As that person is ranking up each one the good guy and bad guy respectively, you are learning to build your characters up from both sides of the realm of good and evil. Telling their stories from both sides (even though they may not be totally related)In this way that you are forcing to take both sides, you will hopefully learn to humanize your characters, eventually creating that type of antagonist that Isuzu is talking about. and work plot that is important for your antagonist or protagonist. That's where the detachment part comes into play.
Basically giving into the sake of story rather than the sake of character.

That's kinda what I gathered from it..
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:35 pm

I think some people here almost see the role of being the antagonist as limiting, or even boring because of the stereotypical bad guys we've seen on here throughout my years on these boards. I think that having a character that everything doesn't work out for in the end, or is unable to find the silver lining and keep fighting the good fight would be something a lot of us could learn from. A character who actually does give up and falls to the dark side, or one who stands up against the majority (the "good guys" on the site) for what they believe in are what I'm imagining. And I'm more than happy to contribute as I already have a character poised and ready to rise up to this troubled antagonistic character.

Keep the thoughts coming guys.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Anbu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:16 pm

This sort of has to do with this and I already talked to Isuzu and a few others about it. But kasai has been in deep [badword] for many years now. So what I was thinking about doing is make a kage who is sort of that evil y'all are talking about. And he would habor the other evil ninja for protection. Sort of like how pein did with the hidden rain and the akatsuki hid out there.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:36 pm

Get at me on that ANBU, starting to get an idea in my head..
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Anbu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:27 pm

So all u bad nin come hide In kasai we have lava cookies
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Kiyoshi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:21 pm

Tsuneo with words of wisdom!

Also, Ryuuchi, I'm neutral, not evil. I do what I want when I want.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Raika » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:25 pm

[/looks at old "'evil' bunny" idea] ...hm....
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Reál Midas » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:52 pm

I've been trying to work my head around an idea where Sebokik eventually regains memory of his time in Kumo, where when he does, he resumes an ideal that shinobi and samurai are bad and should be judged on a basis of a base human being. In essence, he feels that shinobi and samurai should have their abilities be used in a more productive, less combat oriented benefit to the village societies. I want an endgame of a very Howard Roark, stand alone type character that is out to end the reign of shinobi and samurai in general. Starting in Kumo.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Ryuuchi » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:40 am

Reál Midas wrote:I've been trying to work my head around an idea where Sebokik eventually regains memory of his time in Kumo, where when he does, he resumes an ideal that shinobi and samurai are bad and should be judged on a basis of a base human being. In essence, he feels that shinobi and samurai should have their abilities be used in a more productive, less combat oriented benefit to the village societies. I want an endgame of a very Howard Roark, stand alone type character that is out to end the reign of shinobi and samurai in general. Starting in Kumo.

Oh he's gonna love the new Kumo then...

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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Reál Midas » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:19 am

I know, right?
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Hanya » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:18 am

Okay guys, you know i'm normally down for all of these things like antagonism and creativity. Indeed I've been hatching quite a few plots with people, but i realize that most of them really do come down to some sort of civil war scenario where either the village goes against the country, or the country goes against the village. As a site, we seldom go about the village vs village thing, and for good reason, but we also seem to neglect the internal village issues.

@anbu: Me and Knyves started working on an internal kasai plot be fore he left, one that focused on everyone exploiting the weakess of kasai, and the fact that no other village respects it, nor do any of the criminals in the country. The villages anbu decide to take things into their own hands and drop the curtain of shadow on their actions. SOme people in the village agree, othersdont, but whether they like it or not, its working. We stand now at the point where the decision is of whether to take the forceful new path or a more diplomatic one, and what the consequences of that against the world would be.

@tolkien: As far as Iwa is concerned, I have been onboard with the whole endgame scenario, but like you said, we have never had enough people to do it. Directly after the event activity, died off, and shadow and arz decided to do away with the village as a whole, taking it somewhere that neither of us could reach it. To that end, we have been trying to rp around that, find loopholes, and everything, but with just the two of us, what really is the point now. I think it was a great plot that didnt realy require too many people, but like every evil, it and we run into this. Whats the point of reshaping the world in your image if there are no people.

Also, i've been working on two other plots, previously with a bit more steam, but a lot of the key players have gone missing.

Plot A: For a while, i've been trying to rebuild a water village, a new Kiri if you must, but have run int othe issue of how to make it different, how to play it, how to rule it, and to that end i've been working one of my characters to death in another village, giving constant cameos and snippets of it being built. As of now, a new village has been built in the water country on a volcanic island. The island is large, and is actually an atoll, providing it decent defense, and it is in the middle of the ocean, providing even more. Kimhari and I have made characters for it already, but have yet to establish much else other than it being a haven for the survivors of the kirigakure situation. The country itself had fallen into decline after kiri's destruction, leading to much of its territory being annexed. Now, with a new shinobi force in the works, their goal is to reclaim some of those lands, and to regain their former glory.

Anybody interested can Pm me about it.

Finally, Plot B: It is a furthering of Phy's plots for sora and the demon country. While the idea of sora was good, its excecution outside of actually being built has been... lackluster. To that end xatu and i had been rping about the technology of the village, and how it was truly on a different level from anything else on site. On the flipside, beneath it there was supposed to be the demon country, a notably savage land that had given rise to something threatening the entire shinobi world. For a while iwondered where Phy was going with that, but it seems like the answer was nowhere. I've been rping quite a few of my characters there, making new clans for it, and turning it into an actual hashed out idea. What we have now is a reflection of a budding shinobi village. Various tribes (clans) around the country exist, but one clan in particular sees the power he could attain. He mounts small scale attacks, conquering the neighboring tribes until he eventually unites the entire country under his banner. It is then that he sets his eyes on the neighboring countries, one of which goes for help from one of the shinobi nations.

This is where phy's original plot comes in, with the main villages having too much on their own plates to deal with yet another problem. From this point, sora begins sending scouts and troops to investigate, only for them to end up dying. Sora begins sending more and more powerful equipment with their shinobi, only for it to get stolen, eventually resulting in the demon country's "Shinobi" to infiltrate sora and steal some equipment, becoming even more of a threat than before. Now it becomes sora's job to stop them before things get outta hand.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:15 pm

@Hanya

Well concerning Iwa, what we could do is just go ahead and establish the relations of Iwa and Earth Country and form the peace treaty and what not with a brief topic. A lot of assumptions will have to be made as they have been fighting for awhile and both sides have had enough. We could then establish the order for Iwa there at least. Not how i wanted it exactly, but at least it will give a clear status of the village and country and allow us to move on further with it since its further situation right now limits both of us to doing what we want to do with it. Doing that shouldn't take no more than me and you to do.

And perhaps we can work something with Kasai and Iwa? not necessarily an alliance but..well..still working on that..
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:24 pm

Tolkien wrote:@Hanya

Well concerning Iwa, what we could do is just go ahead and establish the relations of Iwa and Earth Country and form the peace treaty and what not with a brief topic. A lot of assumptions will have to be made as they have been fighting for awhile and both sides have had enough. We could then establish the order for Iwa there at least. Not how i wanted it exactly, but at least it will give a clear status of the village and country and allow us to move on further with it since its further situation right now limits both of us to doing what we want to do with it. Doing that shouldn't take no more than me and you to do.

And perhaps we can work something with Kasai and Iwa? not necessarily an alliance but..well..still working on that..


Considering Iwa and Kasai's history (they went to war on old NC if I recall), there's definitely room for negotiations there.
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Re: An Observation.

PostPosted by Knyves » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:39 pm

So, not super active. Or barely active at all for that matter. Anywho, I keep seeing Kasai getting tossed around, so I thought I'd throw in what I saw it as.

Kasai has been the weakest village since Amamizu's attack on oldNC. Iwa played a part in all that as well, betraying Kasai when they needed them, leading to a long-lasting distrust. Kumo and Kasai have a close relationship, or had, before the curtain of shadows, as Hanya put it, fell in Kasai. With a more militaristic and heavy-handed style, Kasai was trying to rebuild, and being successful. However, incessant attacks are keeping morale down, and the progress is slow.

2 Options: Either the disheartened leave, wandering until they can rebuild from the ground up somewhere new, or
They cling more desperately to the dictatorial regime that KoMODO has put in place, seeing it as their only escape from victimization. Either one can be played really well I think.

Also, as far as site wide plots. Who says generic is bad? Set up a few genuinely evil people, people that are ready for the end of the world (religious fanaticism is always a great motive) And they enthrall hordes of others to join them, creating an army of evil. Case in point, some of the greatest villains from comic books, Darkseid and the Joker. One is trying to end everything, the other just playing with the status quo to see what happens.

As far as idea: Musashi's old demon Baraka was a member of a group of Demons (not chakra-creatures like Bijuu, but demons from a different plane) known as the Kayoss. These demons feed on chakra and are willing to destroy everyone in order to feed. They possess people's bodies, which makes killing them... tricky, because the only real fool-proof way to end their lives is to end the life of the host body as well. Seals would be tricky, because they devour the chakra fueling the seal slowly, making the barrier between host psyche and the demon grow weaker with time. Also, bands of religious fanatics, pledging allegiance to their Hellspawn rulers would act as sleeper agents within the villages, causing terror in the streets etc etc.

I dunno, just something I've been noodling since I first saw this thread.
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