An Observation.

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An Observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:12 pm

We suffer from a serious lack of evil-doers here. We have tons of extremely powerful ninja on the site who are more than willing to die in battle against evil...yet we have no evil to fight. There may be a few high level characters who consider themselves evil but I haven't seen any in a while.

Do you guys see this same thing? If so, why not let's brain storm here and now to come up with some way for the scales to be evened out a little. I'm not talking "new Akatsuki" or anything like that. I'm just wanting some sort of brain storm session here on any alternative strategies we haven't tried. Perhaps some sort of incentive for making an evil character.

I think part of the problem with the last Akatsuki was that they were just created, thus having no motivations behind them. This made them bland villians, which is what a lot of the villians on the site have been. There need to be some truely diabolical, troubled and complicated villians created! That will motivate the site to fight against them and, hopefully, get some of our activity back.
Last edited by Isuzu on Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Ryuuchi » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:16 pm

Isuzu wrote:We suffer from a serious lack of evil-doers here. We have tons of extremely powerful ninja on the site who are more than willing to die in battle against evil...yet we have no evil to fight. There may be a few high level characters who consider themselves evil but I haven't seen any in a while.

Eeeeeeexcuse moi?

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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:33 pm

I wasn't sure exactly how active you are. Ryuuchi was the one example I could think of that might still be around. Ibaku was a really good one too but he's gone now I believe.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Kiyoshi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:40 am

Arzur is busy with school.

Also, Ryuuchi, start actually doing evil stuff and I may believe you aren't just weird and/or can't make up your mind.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tsuneo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:23 am

Mandated duality!

For every "good" character you have, you must make an evil one! And vice versa!

Automatically rank-approved for your dual-twin!
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Ryuuchi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:28 am

Kiyoshi wrote:Arzur is busy with school.

Also, Ryuuchi, start actually doing evil stuff and I may believe you aren't just weird and/or can't make up your mind.

Like you're one to talk...

Besides, Ryuuchi's on vacation...

Tsuneo wrote:Mandated duality!

For every "good" character you have, you must make an evil one! And vice versa!

Automatically rank-approved for your dual-twin!

If only this were true...though not everyone can play a good bad guy.

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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:01 am

Perhaps "evil" is not the right word. I'm talking about antagonists, which don't always HAVE to be evil. They just have motivations and goals in contradiction with the protagonists. They don't have to be just a generic evil person, as I stated in an earlier post. The best antagonists are those that blur the line between good and evil, showing characteristics of both almost simultaneously.

This is more my point. It's not like we haven't had bad guys on the site before. My point is that, save for a few notable exceptions, it's like they've all been evil simply for the sake of being that. Or they take the Uchiha route.

I was hoping maybe we could just brainstorm here a little and talk out a couple of interesting takes on antagonists in a shinobi world. They be can be as narrow as a particular villages antagonist or perhaps threaten the shinobi world as a whole. Feel free to contribute, and I'll throw up a few of my ideas in a little while.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Ryuuchi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:19 am

Isuzu wrote:Perhaps "evil" is not the right word. I'm talking about antagonists, which don't always HAVE to be evil. They just have motivations and goals in contradiction with the protagonists. They don't have to be just a generic evil person, as I stated in an earlier post. The best antagonists are those that blur the line between good and evil, showing characteristics of both almost simultaneously.

This is more my point. It's not like we haven't had bad guys on the site before. My point is that, save for a few notable exceptions, it's like they've all been evil simply for the sake of being that. Or they take the Uchiha route.

I was hoping maybe we could just brainstorm here a little and talk out a couple of interesting takes on antagonists in a shinobi world. They be can be as narrow as a particular villages antagonist or perhaps threaten the shinobi world as a whole. Feel free to contribute, and I'll throw up a few of my ideas in a little while.

The problem with calling them "antagonists" is that, if two people RP there will be two different notions of who the protagonist is. People have a tendency of viewing their own characters as the protagonist in the plot unless we're talking about clearly defined plots centered around a certain character or his story. Say that for example I enter one of Raika's character developing plots with a minor character, the point of the plot is focused on and driven by Raika charry, she would clearly be the protagonist of the RP. But then let's take my RP with Oddy as an example, my char is clearly viewed as the antagonist by Oddy's char, but the same holds up for my char yet neither is evil and I'm certain we both view them as the protagonists since we look at the situation through different points of view.
It's all about perspective.

Being the "good guy" doesn't really cut it to be a protagonist and without a clearly defined protagonist you can't have a clearly defined antagonist. In a plot with three people A could be antagonistic toward B but not toward C, yet all players could view their characters as the protagonists.
The easiest way of making an "antagonist" fit for every case is simply to make him evil (or have goals that could be considered evil) since an evil character can easily be the antagonist for everyone else even if the user views his character as the protagonist.

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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:57 am

Isuzu wrote:Perhaps "evil" is not the right word. I'm talking about antagonists, which don't always HAVE to be evil. They just have motivations and goals in contradiction with the protagonists. They don't have to be just a generic evil person, as I stated in an earlier post. The best antagonists are those that blur the line between good and evil, showing characteristics of both almost simultaneously.

This is more my point. It's not like we haven't had bad guys on the site before. My point is that, save for a few notable exceptions, it's like they've all been evil simply for the sake of being that. Or they take the Uchiha route.

I was hoping maybe we could just brainstorm here a little and talk out a couple of interesting takes on antagonists in a shinobi world. They be can be as narrow as a particular villages antagonist or perhaps threaten the shinobi world as a whole. Feel free to contribute, and I'll throw up a few of my ideas in a little while.



I know what you mean, and that was basically what I meant as well in what I mentioned with the village earlier. Characters who feel they have the greatest of intentions however their methods may be extreme, or whatnot yeah I can help with this. I have been slow with my antagonists, but I have certain reasons as to why they go their path.

Here's a short paraphrased example:
My character Kefka Imani will be an eventual antagonist. Before, Kefka was arrogant and very prideful as a member of the Imani clan of Kumo and a rival to Tolkien, (during his Kumo days) but things changed when his bijuu (he had the Gobi at the time) had awakened, (he was not even aware he was a Jinchuuriki) and then when it was taken away from him by Zetsu. He finds out later that his whole life has been a lie. Gainon tells him he is an experimental clone carrying the DNA of the former Tsuchikage Maceon Windu and from Gainon himself. Not only that he is cloned in the likeness of the original Kefka who unrevealed to everyone else (only Gainon and the Imani chief Kenta know this) was accidently killed by Tolkien long ago in a personal dispute to be revealed later. Kefka doesn't know that part about the original Kefka being killed, but it will be slowly revealed and facts manipulated to him by Gainon, hoping to try to truly bring him over to his side. It has worked somewhat, as Kefka had abandoned the Imani in Kumo and now is with Iwa, causing him to be at odds with his clan and the Imani chief as well as with Tolkien, once Gainon reveals that bit with him as well.

My character Mainasha Imani will be an eventual antagonist down the line as well, probably the most tragic one as she is downright forced to become what she becomes and not by choice. A tragic event happens that will change her forever. Wont say anymore for that one. Even Gainon, the masterful manipulator has his personal flaws and reasons that brought him to the path he has chosen now.

Well those were a few examples of my own character antagonists. Hmm.. as far as world wide threats...my site wide topic ..and idea me and Hanya were working on (originally just an Iwa event) was still there, I just couldn't go with it yet because lack of activity here at the moment. (sorry Hanya) The setting would start with the Iwa Civil war going on between Earth country and Iwa. Earth Country would try to end the Iwa conflict once and for all, by using a biological creature, or parasite if you like, developed by a former top level scientist of GIC. We find out that this Scientists has plans of his own as the creature is develped. The creature (looks sort of like SIN from Final Fantasy 10) has the ability assimilate whoever it devours and becomes stronger and can take in that person's likeness and certain abilities. It's first victim is none other than the scientists who developed him (the scientist willingly gives himself to the creature as part of his plan) and all hell breaks loose. The parasite not only takes in the likness of the scientists, but carries his genius level intellect. It turns on both Earth Country and Iwa. They lose the battle and retreat with whatever they have left. As the creature or entity (as it can then take human form)now expands beyond the country in it's plan to ultimately assimilate everyone in the world carrying the scientists vision of true peace by having everyone within one mind and one goal.

More to it but that is gist of it.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tsuneo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:31 am

Ryuuchi wrote:]
Tsuneo wrote:Mandated duality!

For every "good" character you have, you must make an evil one! And vice versa!

Automatically rank-approved for your dual-twin!

If only this were true...though not everyone can play a good bad guy.


Practice makes perfect.

I think if everyone were forced to make one good guy and one bad guy, eventually the players here would have the skills necessary to pull off what Isuzu is talking about.

Currently, they do not.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:34 am

Tsuneo wrote:
Ryuuchi wrote:]
Tsuneo wrote:Mandated duality!

For every "good" character you have, you must make an evil one! And vice versa!

Automatically rank-approved for your dual-twin!

If only this were true...though not everyone can play a good bad guy.


Practice makes perfect.

I think if everyone were forced to make one good guy and one bad guy, eventually the players here would have the skills necessary to pull off what Isuzu is talking about.

Currently, they do not.



I don't agree with that. There is talent here just needs refocus.

EDIT: But I do understand where you're coming from.
Last edited by Tolkien on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:46 am

I think maybe best in when creating characters to already be thinking about what conflicts that character will have to go through.

Like when character A is made, you think about what conflicts he will face. Who will be in his way? that could lead to character B, the antagonists. Then you look at "Why is he in the character A's way". What is his reason for being in the path of opposition to character A" Rather short, but maybe answering just little questions like that can go a long way into developing a protagonist and antagonist.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Ryuuchi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:56 am

A bad guy character should not be the byproduct of another character as if he's an extra attachment, this is incredibly limiting. Rather, he should be his own character made from scratch without thinking about it as "I'll make this bad guy to be in the way of this good guy."...at least I don't make it as such. When I make a bad guy I simply give him a goal or a certain personality that just so happens to be conflicting with others. A "bad guy" should live in his own world with his own rules and reasoning.

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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Isuzu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:11 pm

I'm talking about a character who's motivations and actions make him in direct opposition with a large section of the site's characters. I'm saying to look at the shinobi way of life on a grand scale, finding things that run true between all villages, and shinobi as a whole. When you do this, it's then easier to pick out a few things here and there that would be in opposition to the "shinobi way of life". Nothing motivates people into action more than if their way of life is threatened or persecuted against.

I have a character that is greatly interested in the way shinobi villages are run. He's from a clan that functions as it's own village, independent of the Great Nation that it resides in. His village is run almost opposite of ninja villages and, until recently, that was all he knew. He moved to a Hidden Village to see what they were like in his teens. Perhaps he begins to grow cold towards the way Shinobi villages are run, the corruption and espionage that takes place behind closed doors. Maybe he begins to speak out against the way the villages do things and becomes alienated from said village. This could make him depressed for a while, then that depression could turn into anger. He only wants the world to be a better place and thinks that it is his duty to change the shinobi villages for the better. After attempts to be diplomatic about it fail, he then hatches a plan to wipe out the Hidden Villages, as they are the war machines of this universe. In his mind, without them the world wouldn't be such a destructive and violent place to live. This is just a hypothetical way my genin in Kumo could turn out to be an antagonist with goals that are difficult to classify as either "good" or "evil". Especially with the events taking place in Kumo as of now.

I've planned on doing something with that character to make him an antagonist since his creating but haven't been here consistently enough to get things moving. However, that's just an example for you guys to the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
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Re: An observation.

PostPosted by Tolkien » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:19 pm

Ryuuchi wrote:A bad guy character should not be the byproduct of another character as if he's an extra attachment, this is incredibly limiting. Rather, he should be his own character made from scratch without thinking about it as "I'll make this bad guy to be in the way of this good guy."...at least I don't make it as such. When I make a bad guy I simply give him a goal or a certain personality that just so happens to be conflicting with others. A "bad guy" should live in his own world with his own rules and reasoning.


Just a small example or path to get someone who might not have a clue on how to get their character made, and you right doesn't have to be. I have some characters like that, cause I have their whole story laid out before they are made, and I have some that are like you said with his own world and reasoning, however they all have a conflict from actions of others whether a protagonist I created or the way the shinobi world is and culture sort of like Isuzu mentioned...

I agree. Sorry, I was just making it simple, perhaps too simple to where it got confused.
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